This is the Point Transfer Forum established by 321. Record all point transfers and contingent point transfers here. Text of 321 follows.
321. Currency
Points are fully transferable. Any player may transfer any number of points to any other player at any time by posting a notice to that effect in the Point Transfer Forum established for this purpose, provided said point transfer would not leave the receiving player within 51 or fewer points from the victory condition. Transfers may be conditional upon the completion of specified act(s) by the receiving party; in case of conflict, the question will be decided by the player who has most recently concluded their turn who is not also a party to the transfer.
The total number of points required to win the game will be 300.
All active players will immediately receive a one-time award of 75 points.
All players voting YES on this proposal will also receive an additional one-time bonus award of 50 points.
After the passage of this rule no points shall be awarded on the basis of how a player has voted for a particular piece of legislation, including the 10-point bonus outlined in 204 for voting NO on passed proposals.
After entering or returning to the game, as described in 314, at the casting of their second explicit vote new or returning players with less than 50 points will have their point total raised to 50.
This proposal shall take precedence over all mutable rules.
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"It is a rule founded on the plainest dictates of common sense, adopted in all systems of law, that no one can transfer a right to another which he has not himself: nemo plus juris ad alienum transfers potest quam ipse habet."
—John Bouvier, A Law Dictionary
I transfer 20 points to Aaron A Aaronson.
I transfer all of Aaron A Aaronson's points to me.
Or is that not how it works?
(heee!)
shelleycat, it says "to any *other* player". You can't do that.
But I can.
I transfer all of Aaron A Aaronson's points to shelleycat.
I transfer as many points from gerryblog to shelleycat as required to reach 348 points.
Oops, we have more points than I thought, shelleycat can't even receive all of AAA's.
Yay!
Oh and I transfer any remaining points from AAA to jay (up to the 348 point limit). Although I'm fickle so may transfer them back later on.
Don't make me call a judge in here.
Why thanks, shelleycat. We're doing so much better than the other players.
It doesn't say anything about only being able to transfer your own points away or specify where the points have to come from. Just that bit about other players which I agree does prevent giving them to myself. I don't even need the transferee to agree, it says the transfer *may* be conditional upon completion by the receiving party but that doesn't mean it *has* to be. So I can give your points to whoever I like whether they want them or not.
I really wish I'd had time to read this rule properly before voting because it's so vague, I really should have voted no. But instead it was passed so now points can be transferred anywhere at any time and have become pretty much meaningless.
Actually this could affect the ability to win the game. Every time someone comes close I'll just transfer their points away. This will continue until everyone has 348 points at which time no one will be able to receive any more. I guess someone will be able to go on and win then but this really isn't the affect gerryblog was hoping to have.
Here gerryblog, have ten of 1's points as consolation. (I'll calucalte and change the players page when I get home, have to get back to the lab now *grin*).
Gah. And calculate the points too.
Oh, please don't vandalize the player's page. Hasn't it been through enough?
I transfer 10 points from flatluigi to gerryblog as well.
For fun maybe I *don't* address this in my upcoming proposal.
We should invoke judgment on this before gerryblog dons the wig, else he'll be all "what i MEANT was..."
I've already got the wig, and I can tell you now I'll rule that this is moronic. Points are clearly defined in the rules as property: you can "earn" them and you can "lose" them. In that context the only possible meaning for 321's "fully transferable" is the transfer of one's own points.
It's definitely fun to play with loopholes -- see the recent dust-up caused by AAA -- but let's not be daft about it.
I've already got the wig
This is probably a better use of my proposal slot. I still insist judges don't rotate till the next proposal is posted for vote. This is a perfect example - you wanting to judge the ramifications of a proposal you just wrote. This precedence is the slippery slope toward "judgment: i win".
I transfer all of my points to 1, my valliant comrade in arms in the Super Cool Victory Fellowship. He now has 307 points. Does that mean he wins?
said point transfer would not leave the receiving player within 51 or fewer points from the victory condition
307 is within 51 or fewer points from the victory condition.
I still insist judges don't rotate till the next proposal is posted for vote. This is a perfect example - you wanting to judge the ramifications of a proposal you just wrote.
That's the system explicitly created by Suber, though. Blame him. With regard to things like the commonsense meaning of "transfer," though, the fact that someone gets to judge their own invocation is a feature, not a bug.
It seems we may need an invocation here. I maintain that 7 MORE is not the same as 51 or FEWER.
I would ask that whoever reverted the player page please not do that? I maintain that the point transfer I have done is completely legal, and do not think anyone has the authority to revert my award to 1 without the ruling of a judge.
Regardless of the status of the player page, I maintain that 1 has 307 points and I have 0.
I think the point is that there's a stipulation in the rule that says you can't transfer points to someone such that their total will within 51 points of the victory condition - in this case, 249 points.
Aaron, you have no points to defer, jay and I have them all. I tried to do the maths but wasn't sure at what stage the players page was up to (i.e. fifty point bonus etc), and didn't have time to go back through all the turns. If the players page was correct then jay's initial transfer to me took all of Aaron's points anyway so there wasn't any left for me to give to jay. Either way Aaron doesn't have any left to give to 1.
Also it says 51 or fewer FROM. The fewer refers to the from not to the winning condition. The from refers to the winning condition and that can be either side (from = away from, which can be greater or smaller).
Just because points are property doesn't mean I can't give yours away. I can give your dog away too if no one catches me. And in this case your rule explicitly gives me permission to do so. (the points that is, not your dog)
"It is a rule founded on the plainest dictates of common sense, adopted in all systems of law, that no one can transfer a right to another which he has not himself: nemo plus juris ad alienum transfers potest quam ipse habet."
—John Bouvier, A Law Dictionary
You can't transfer what you don't have, and your analogy -- "I can give your dog away too if no one catches me" -- speaks for itself. What you are physically capable of doing has no bearing on what you are authorized to do -- it goes without saying that you are not authorized to transfer points that are not yours. I know it's a game, but let's try and be serious.
This is a game about the law. The rule was not perfect, but what the rule means by "transfer" is not ambiguous in the least.
OK so gerryblog's transfer of 20 is the only legitimate action that has taken place on this thread.
And this is why you shouldn't be allowed to judge your own rule - we should have been able to SKEWER you on this one.
I am going to ignore all the hi-jinx about people transferring my points, but it seems we have a judgment that I didn't transfer to 1. SO I will take the current player page as accurate.
So now, I am transferring points to gerryblog, bringing his total to 249 and my total to 60. The remaining 60 I transfer 59 to 1, and the remaining 1 to jay.
Done.
I transfer my 209 points to Gerryblog, giving him 458 points. Because he's a good man serving his country proudly on a submarine. I transfer an additional 0 points to Jay.
I transfer 78 of my 458 points to both 1 and AAA each, 1 point to jay, and 1 point to ssg, leaving me with 300 exactly.
Just for the sake of consistency with earlier rulings.
The second transfer of 78 points, to me, is illegal in that it brings you to within 51 points or fewer of the victory condition.
Oops, I am wrong, it specifies "the receiving player", so transfer away...