MeFiNo | The MetaFilter Nomic Game

That ruling is also voided. The players are the 14 persons listed in the "List of Players":

1 (0 pts)
Aaron A. Aaronson (-2 pts)
backseatpilot (14 pts)
Chuck (2 pts)
ctmf (3 pts)
flatluigi (-10 pts)
gerryblog (7 pts)
jay (0 pts)
jeblis (0 pts)
mosessis (0 pts)
shelleycat (0 pts)
ssg (0 pts)
tallus (0 pts)
volkspider (0 pts)

There are no other players at this time. As there is no procedure listed in the rules to join a game in progress, judgment would have to be invoked to add anyone to this list.

I think there was some bullshit in there, but I'll run with it. For the record, a player should not be able to invoke judgment on an issue they will themselves, and a judge may not rule on issues not invoked. This is just my opinion, based on a sense of fair play, and I hope to help the rules move in that direction someday.

a player should not be able to invoke judgment on an issue they will themselves,

I'm the last person qualified to be a typo nitpicker, but I don't know what that means.

and a judge may not rule on issues not invoked.

Agree. They should also not be able to rule on their own invocations. Or simply be prohibited from making invocations during their tenure as Judge.

I agree with both of these. It was cool when this was a loophole only I knew about, but ever since the word got out things have gotten out of hand. Assuming that jay is the honest judge I know he will be, this should be priority #1 for 312.

I meant: A player should not be able to invoke judgment on an issue they will themselves immediately judge. Textareas need vi input.

I can't get back in time far enough to figure out wtf happened, but as long as gerryblog took points before flatluigi started legislating I can ignore it all.

This initial ruleset is so braindead for playing online I'm ecstatic that more than a dozen people hung out to try and fix it. Things are looking up.

Is there any way of looking at the full list of judgement invocations and votes in the same way we can look at the forums? There are so many now that some active ones have scrolled off the sidebar and front page and it's getting too hard to find where the new comments are. I don't like the comment tracker thing, too confusing.

Let me get this straight, there's no major barrier to my posting 311 nor its passing, gerryblog is active judge, and the shadow ruleset is already in place? I should go out to dinner more often.

shelleycat: I tried like hell to figure out how to suck those into the forum a while back, so the "1 new" flag would show up in the index, but I couldn't. Maybe jay knows how.

In the meantime, the front page can be clicked back all the way to near the beginning of the game. You can scan that for "1 new" after each FPP. It's kind of a PITA, but at least comments aren't lost forever once they scroll off the sidebar.

jay can probably whip up some admin magic to make that happen, but here's the short version:

AAA invoked judgment on who was a player and who isn't.

flatluigi ignored that question and invoked judgment on who had won the game, ruling that every player was awarded 1337 simultaneously and therefore that we all won simultaneously. He then ruled the game was over.

I then took my points, ending 310. I invoked judgment on what the hell had just happened and concluded in my new capacity as judge that although all players had 1337 points, none had reached exactly 200 positive points, and so therefore no one had reached the victory condition after all.

flatluigi invoked judgment a few times, but eventually acceded to the wisdom of this ruling. (The most important one is the one labeled numbers, as it's this one that establishes that even flatluigi agrees that it is currently turn 311.)

ctmf then invoked judgment on whether everyone really had 1337 points. I said no, and also ruled that there are currently only 14 players.

There was a little bit of handwaving here in terms of the transition between 310 and 311, but as judge I ruled that the consent of the majority of players to move on is implied unless explicitly demonstrated. Since it has not yet been demonstrated, we can only conclude it is currently not 310, that flatluigi is not still the judge, and that the game can therefore continue as usual.

The recent proposal/judgment block now has a "More" link, which takes you to the same place as the link in the nav menu, Legal History.

Would the esteemed judge care to explain why myself, tallus, and (presumably) one other person are still players, given that we did not vote on proposal 310, in violation of rule 305?

I have answered that question, apparently to Chuck's satisfaction, in the voting thread.

Huh? What makes you think you have answered the question to my satisfaction?

The question you answered to my satisfaction in that thread was whether it is currently turn 311. I do not see an answer there to why tallus and I (and one other person whose identity I don't know) are still players.

Please understand, I am not attacking your judgment here: I certainly wish to remain a player, and am pleased to see that I still am. However, I am not understanding the reasoning here, given that in all turns prior to 310, people who failed to vote ceased to be players.

a judge may not rule on issues not invoked

that depends on your theory of nomic jurisprudence. We had a pretty clear judgment on just this issue, early on in the game:

Q: Can the judge use his powers of logic and reason to define the scope of the invocation as he sees fit, and to answer related questions he feels are relevant to the invocation?
A: The answer is YES. It is not the job of mere players to debate and question and reinterpret the ruling in a way that suits them, or that they feel better reflects our written laws. Players DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY to debate and interpret and accept / reject rulings of judges. There is only ONE clearly defined remedy for a player who wishes to challenge a judge, and that is by opening a (unanimous) vote to overrule.

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