Judge flatluigi,
It is obvious that there are sockpuppets walking among us, and it is killing the game. It effects the current and future turns in that we don't actually know who are legitimate players.
My questions are:
- Is the current player list accurate? Are LambChop and Abron players, for example?
- Are sockpuppets illegal given our ruleset?
- If they are illegal, what is the remedy?
- Do you demand that jay consult the IP logs to determine which accounts are legitimate?
- Should the information regarding who is a puppetmaster, and of which account(s), be made public?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPl8G5cvdNw
I remind judge flatluigi that IPs are totally meaningless since anyone can potentially route through anywhere via proxy.
In other words, even if a player has a unique IP it doesn't mean they're not a sockpuppet.
That's true, volkspider, but if two accounts are coming from the same IP, or immediately leaving / entering one after the other, that is pretty damning evidence that they are indeed puppetmaster / sock. I imagine the bulk of our userbase are not leet enough to be using any fancy proxy tricks.
I disagree; setting up a proxy server is easy. There're lots of step-by-step tutorials. And user-friendly remote desktop software (like pcAnywhere, RealVNC, etc.) can be used for the same effect. Anyone that can use BitTorrent could figure it out.
No need to install anything.
Yes, though I was establishing the case for 1's potentially verifiable home IP still not proving anything. In the end all the evidence is unreliable; the judge will have to rule according to his gut, popular opinion, or some other fundament.
I think there are times when it's fairly obvious from server logs that someone is a sock puppet, matching IPs being the main reason, but there are also lots of times when the puppetry can be easily hidden. As my IP address changes quite a lot I give less weight to that information anyway. So volkspider is correct, a judge would have to rule based on less than conclusive evidence. Which is kind of dangerous, what if they decide someone is a sockpuppet and should be thrown out simply because they don't like that person or what they vote for? Judges shouldn't be allowed to kick people out or disallow votes on a whim.
The only way to be really clear on this is to get everyone to set up webcams and run a webcam portal. Make it so we can physically see who is doing what. I don't think this will happen for all kinds of reasons, not least of which is the messy morning hair I sometimes have while posting.
If we're really setting up a sockpuppet tribunal, I'd direct flatluigi to 1's comment history, which is distinctly sock-puppety: nearly all inconsistent positions and one-liners. In particular I'd point to 1's vehement denunciations of those who would vote against majority-rules, only to be the one person to come out of nowhere to vote against it when it looked like it finally might pass.
*If* we're really setting up a sockpuppet tribunal.
I'm familiar with 1 from MeFi - the styles match. If he's a sockpuppet here, someone must have thought pretty far ahead, to before MeFiNo existed. I don't think he's a sockpuppet.
Or, he's a sockpuppet account on MeFi in the first place. In any case, I'm not that concerned about any of the current players. All I want is Rule protection against being flooded by sockpuppets, now that it's been discovered that there isn't any.
I think there's a useful distinction to be made between "being a sockpuppet" and "not playing in good faith." The urge is to collapse the two because then we can say that 1's vote against 310 didn't count -- but there's really no legitimate case to do this, and there's really no rule against voting against a proposed rule change for a dumb reason.
Still, I would be perfectly happy if flatluigi declared 1 a sock and threw him out of the game for a turn so 310 passes. He can rejoin for 311; it can be my first act as judge.
I'm familiar with 1 from MeFi - the styles match.
Yeah me too. One of the other players might be a sock for 1 (although I have no idea which one and think this is unlikely), but I don't think 1 is the sock for someone else.
I rule that all registered accounts are separate players.
All registered accounts are players? That make 47 players.
Yep. And?
I vote to overrule.
How long do you want a turn to take, with, for example, cortex still on the player list? He already said he can't play.
(ctmf, I point you to the other judgement. it's over, man.)
Um, there's no rule that says the game ends when someone wins.
I vote against overruling. Hooray, again!
volkspider: easily fixed.
Say, aren't your judgments illegitimate?
212: "Judges may, however, settle only those questions ... that affect the completion of the turn"
If the game's over, that certainly affects the completion of the turn.
I think you have the cart before the horse there.
I would just like to point out that, regardless of who supposedly won this clusterfuck, I am the only player to have been awarded a